His Holiness the Dalai Lama in conversation with brain scientist Kenichiro Mogi[Tuesday, 9 November 2010, 4:00 p.m.]

His Holiness the Dalai Lama speaking on Buddhist practice at the Todaiji temple complex in Nara, Japan, 8 November 2010. Photo / Taikan Usui /OHHDL

Niihama, Japan:
“After the Second World War, many of your big cities were really
destroyed. But than you built a new world from the ashes. The same as
with Germany. While modernizing, you also kept your traditions.” His
Holiness greeted his Japanese audience with these hopeful and
complimentary words, as a crowd of 300 or so filled a hall in the
picturesque town of Niihama, on the Inland Sea island of Shikoku, on
the third full day of his autumn tour. He had flown up to Niihama by
helicopter, on a windy, chilly morning, and then held a press 
conference on his arrival in his hotel. Now he was embarking on a
discussion with the noted Japanese brain scientist, Kenichiro Mogi, on
the mind and the brain.    His Holiness began their
conversation by distinguishing between what we take in with our senses,
and what we take in with our mind, describing how “even physical pain
can be subdued by a mental state of satisfaction. So therefore mental,
inner experiences are more important than the physical, sensory plane.”
Then he started to ask Professor Mogi one searching question after
another, about whether neurologists can compare anger in a waking state
with anger while dreaming, and whether to some extent consciousness can
affect the brain, as well as the other way round.    Often, he
explained, when conducting discussions with scientists, “some people
use the words, `Dialogue between science and Buddhism.’ That, I feel,
is the wrong phrase. Buddhism is a religion, and we have nothing to do
with science. But since Buddhist teaching is about how to train, how to
improve our basic human qualities–warm-heartedness, compassion–so,
ultimately, we need a lot of explanation about the mental system and
about the emotions.” Buddhism, he said, can be divided into three
parts: science, psychology and Buddhist religion. “So really I suggest
that the phrasing should be, “A dialogue between natural science and
Buddhist science.’ ”    His Holiness then spoke about the
Buddhist practitioners who had had their brains tested, and who had
been found to be “unusually calm. But when we talk about compassion, a
tear comes in these people. Many people believe that consciousness
comes from the brain, from the neurons. So when the neurons stop,
consciousness stops. But,” he added, “some scientists believe that the
consciousness can affect the brain. This is not a question of other
lives, something like that. But, at another level, a more subtle
kind of consciousness could affect the brain.” There were many cases,
His Holiness said, in which expert monks were found to have signs of
consciousness one week, two weeks, three weeks after death, “their
bodies very fresh.”    Clearly delighting in having an expert
scientist to talk to, who could share his expertise in fluent English,
His Holiness then asked Professor Mogi “if we can develop a kind of
surgery whereby we can remove that part of the brain that brings
attachment, anger. So we can remove these problems, without training
the mind.” (Professor Mogi mentioned lobotomy, and how such surgery
might perhaps be possible, though so far a special part of the brain
associated with these afflictive  emotions had yet to be isolated). 
  As people from the audience rose to ask him questions–on how, say,
his study of science had changed his understanding of Buddhism–His
Holiness recalled how he used to look at the night skies with a
telescope, even when he was in Lhasa, and see how, when the sun set
over the earth, the light left the moon. “The moon has no light,” he
realized. “Its light comes only from the sun. That my naked eye
confirmed.” And, reading up on astronomy in the 1960s, he decided he could no longer believe in Mount Meru (“at least on this planet”). 
  That was no problem, he explained. “Buddha didn’t come to this planet
to make a map of the universe. His main concern was how to reduce our
suffering. That will remain the same, for the next thousand years. Even
after another Big Bang, the truth of this will remain the same. Some
emotions, maybe after 10,000, or 100,000 years, may change, when the
shape of the brain changes. But  today’s emotions and emotions at the
time of the Buddha are the same.”    Warming to his theme, and
speaking–in English–with more and more conviction and power, His
Holiness recalled how, when he began his discussions with scientists,
some American Buddhists had warned him, `Science is a killer of
religion. Be careful!’ Then I thought and thought. In Buddhism in
general, particularly in the Nalanda tradition, the key instrument is
investigation, not belief. Because the ultimate source of suffering is
ignorance, having a wrong view. So, in order to reverse a wrong view,
you must develop a right view. In order to develop a right view, you
should know the reality. In order to know the reality, you should
practice investigation.” Even to the point of investigating Buddha’s
own teachings.    Finally he stated that, in his thinking and
his practice, he wanted to go “to the root of the Buddhist tradition.
To scholars like Nagarjuna. Because the root of the tradition is the
same, even if there are different branches. The roots are very solid.
These great classical texts fit everyone.” He ended by reminding his
audience that man, alone among the animals, had been given “the special
gift of a brain. We must utilize this great instrument–for
construction, not destruction. Education is simply a way to open our
eyes, and to see the world in a holistic way.” [Report filed by Pico Iyer, famous author and essayist.]